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Copyright TM Question?

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clickshots
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:12AM
Hi,

I am new here and i feel i have a valid question to ask about copyright or TM, I have just had a photo rejected for what they feel is copyrighted or TM but i did some research and from what i find the word aspirin is in the public domain

So can someone tell me why this image would get rejected for the following.

I was very careful when i shot the item in question i think its a cool shot and i was not worried due to the fact that my image had the word aspirin which is a generic term in it, as far as i can see, now i completely understand the admins rejecting it if my shot had Bayer on it or something like that to protect us both but it only shows aspirin and some numbers so how did i break a rule.
I hope some true experts can explain as i did do some reserach listed below.

The following is a few paragraphs of info from the web i found on the word aspirin.

Brand names are a form intellectual property that are developed and confer some market advantage such as an association with certain attributes or functionality. Any business school student will tell you that brand creation is a costly and difficult endeavor, similar to the creation of most IP, in fact it is a form of IP. But trademarks have an interesting property in that if a brand name comes into common usage, the trademark can fall into the public domain. This has happened in the U.S. with "aspirin," the brand name for acetylsalycilic acid developed by Bayer. In Canada, you go to the drug store and request the popular analgesic by the generic name unless specifically requesting the Bayer Aspirin brand. In the U.S., aspirin is a generic term.

The problem with acetylsalicylic acid was that its, then, better-known forerunner, salicylic acid, had been in use since the 1820s as a pain killer and fever remedy, but early salicylate concoctions had a terrible reputation for being hard on the stomach. Failed efforts to buffer salicylic acid with sodium had soured chemists on the potential of stomach-friendly salicylate drugs, so the industry ignored acetylsalicylic acid until 1899, when Felix Hoffman, an employee of the German company Bayer, happened upon Gerhardt's discoveries.Hoffman wanted a safe, effective remedy for his father's arthritis pain, and he persuaded reluctant Bayer executives to produce and market the drug. Bayer thus trademarked acetylsalicylic acid under the name Aspirin (with a capital A). The A was from the drug's chemical name, the spir was from the spiraea ulmaria plant from which chemists extracted salicylic acid, and the in was a common suffix for drugs.Despite Bayer's reservations, Aspirin powder was a notable success, and the company began selling the drug in tablet form in 1915. The word Aspirin became so synonymous with pain relief that Bayer was required to forfeit its Aspirin trademark as part of Germany's World War I reparations stipulated in the Treaty of Versailles in 1919.


So this is why I am not understanding why this is a problem
or is it the fact that maybe back in the 1800s it was registered but now it is public domain does anyone out there know if im correct there should be no problem or are we both right and I understand they cant look up every thing they feel may be an infringement or is it I just felt it was a cool image and had hoped it would be acceted? maybe i have to PS it.

I hope some of you can help me out with this one.
The image in question is here with lowercase a.





caraman
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:36AM
Can't help with the © issue but I really like that shot!

Dennis Cox
clickshots
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:46AM
Thanks, So do I that's my dilemma.

I thank you for your reply I hope someone here can advise me on this one and im sure you can understand that I was going for a certain feel so that is why I purposely used what I felt was generic.

If I would have used completely blank tablets this shot would not have had the same feel in my opin.
sakaasa
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:54AM
1. Not all the tablets say aspirin. You have several showing with the manufacturer's registered number.

2. Don't complain in the forums when you have an image rejected. Ask for help in Critique Requests or take your issue to support.

3. If you want to ask about TM and Copyrights, don't bring it up as a complaint about your rejected image. There is at least one long, recent thread on this. Also "aspirin" has been discussed before. Search and do a read.

Welcome .
clickshots
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:44AM
I was not complaining I was asking a simple question not meant to be a complaint in any way just asking from some experts here as to why? so that i know and understand better considering I used a compleatly generic product.

I also did not see this info about this type of drug code infringment in the link they gave me maybe that should be posted there as well if its not.

And did research on it which i have also posted here, my reason for posting here and not writing support or anthing of that mater is becouse I was not complaining and felt this way i wouldnt be bothering anyone that was just doing there job.

I hope the people here can understand that.
my goal is not to argue its to understand this properly if i didnt research it I would not be asking for advice or help on this.

You came across a bit strong in your post and I dont feel that my post should have been taken as a complaint.

As i said i felt it best to hear from others then to bother with this obviously involved question with support.

I think i do nice work and I relize photos get rejected all the time for various reasons this is understandable but i did not feel this a bad question and its not even so much the rejection but more of a learning process on this type of thing how are people supposed to learn if the dont ask somone who might know? as i didnt feel i broke any TM if i did i can assure you it was not intentional i was just going for a shot with a certain feel? I like to shoot objects and i dont want to make the same mistakes twice.

If you can point me over to the correct thread you mention that would be great. OK I FOUND THAT OTHER THREAD


(Edited on 2005-01-19 03:28:50 by clickshots)
fullvalue
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:17AM
1. Not all the tablets say aspirin. You have several showing with the manufacturer's registered number


Even if they were going to allow the use of the word "aspirin" any numbers would have to magically vanish. The rejection notice would be the same for those numbers.
Hogie
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:22AM
And did research on it which i have also posted here, my reason for posting here and not writing support or anthing of that mater is becouse I was not complaining and felt this way i wouldnt be bothering anyone that was just doing there job...


...You came across a bit strong in your post and I dont feel that my post should have been taken as a complaint.

As i said i felt it best to hear from others then to bother with this obviously involved question with support...



Hey clickshots,

Welcome to iStock! We're glad you've joined the ranks.

FYI: Support is there to help. When you have a question that is not already well covered in the forums or one related to a rejection, Support is the best place to head. There is a wonderful staff there eager to help you.

As a general rule questions directly or indirectly related to a rejection are met with some amount of reaction. This is due to the abuse of the forums by some ill-intentioned users (read trolls). You've probably read the Posting guidelines for iStockphoto Discussion Forum (sticky) .

At any rate you've got some excellent, valid questions. The best way to have them heard is to post without reference to a rejection. Again, Support is there for you when you have a more then basic question that is not covered in the forums.

BTW: that looks like a very nice shot. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your work.

Once again welcome to iStock!

Regards,

Hogie
kickstand
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:59AM
Why not use generic vitamin tablets or something, and re-shoot?

Using tablets that say "aspirin", whether TM or not, limits their usefulness. You'd have a more generic, useful image if they were just blank pills with no text on them.

istockphoto_Pill_Spill_303897
Brittle
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:06AM
or you could clone out the asprin letters?
dgilder
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:36AM
Hmm, I'm not really that big of a fan of that particular shot.

Brittle, From reading the stuff he found, it looks like the problem might be the numbers rather than the word asprin.
joyze
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:30AM
I've done some investigating and according to Bayer's website, Apsirin is a registered trade name.

"Acetylsalicylic acid (ASA) - which is marketed in Bayer's familiar Over-the-Counter product range under the trade name Aspirin® and Bayer Aspirin® -"

I found this info at the Aspirin website.
donald_gruener
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:34AM
I also did not see this info about this type of drug code infringment in the link they gave me maybe that should be posted there as well if its not.

Unfortunately, it would be impossible to cover every single possible infringement scenario in our documentation here. Understand that while we can be leniant in regards to certain criteria, when it comes to trademark & copyright issues, we have to be diligent and err on the side of caution. Rather than expect us to provide a comprehensive list of every single item that we cannot accept, see our protected items list more as examples of the types of things you can expect to be declined. It just has to become habit to think about that when you're creating stock images.

Like some of the others in this thread, I think that's a really great image. I am a designer that does a lot of work with the healthcare industry so I'm always excited to see anyone producing compelling images in that vein (er, no pun intended). Please keep it up, and welcome to iStock!
clickshots
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:01AM
Hi all my reason for starting this thread is that althogh theres an older thread somone pointed me to i feel after visiting there that this is still a valid question kind of like a CSI mystery a bit more unusual then the other © or TD questions that i find most interesting let me show you another reason why.

Ok heres a famous companys image i think that when you look at this you will see why i feel so compelled to unravel some of the mystery about this type of shot, if i or others did create a shot with the realism aspect like i did what allows this company to do this as well, please look I see both numbers and the word aspirin in the shot again a well known company image note who its by when you see it, there no newbe!

Now i know this is on the other site thats not important, what is important is how a famous stock company which we all know can hold this following shot but we cant? again not trying to get into any leagalitys just trying to find out answers to what I feel is a valid and important topic. to make it more interesting your correct that Aspirin is TD but thats with A capital A the a in my shot and the a in the shot in this link is lowercase.

CLICK HERE!

PS to some of you that like and understand why i left the wording on my shot feel and think my question is an important one thanks, being a designer I try and shoot from our point of view, you can see some of my other work if you like in my small but soon to be growing portfolio.

About the protected items list i did look i did not see anything on this type of item, unless i missed it maybe it should be added to the list if this question deems to be un-answerable 100%

(Edited on 2005-01-19 10:17:30 by clickshots)
diane39
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:13AM
For the record clickshots, I agree with you. I don't think the term "aspirin" with a small "a" would be allowed to be used generically (as the pills in my shot were) if it was a copywrite violation. I think the point of the admins is that this may not be the case internationally, and iStock being an international site, they are erring on the side of caution.
zona
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:20AM
"Aspirin's success ended up costing the Bayer Company a great deal of money, when the U.S., England, France, and Russia forced it to surrender the trademark to them, as part of Germany's war reparations at the close of World War I. Bayer gave up the trademark in 1919, as part of the Treaty of Versailles, which explains why the aspirin, stripped of its trademark, is now written in the lower case."

I think you've got the point and I think having aspirin written on the pills does not limit the use of the image at all. The most widely used and talked about medicine - there will always be the demand for fresh shots, with the name on it.
benoitb
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:43AM
"The brand name Aspirin was coined by the Bayer company of Germany. In some countries the name is used as a generic term for the drug rather than the manufacturer's trademark. In countries in which Aspirin remains a trademark, the initialism ASA is used as a generic term (ASS in German language countries, for Acetylsalicylsäure)."

see here...

iStock sells it's images worldwide...

You can retouch or re-shoot... Nice image btw...

(Edited on 2005-01-19 10:53:43 by benoitb)
Sirimo
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:10AM
This debate has come back and and the answer is still the same. No 'Aspirin' or 'aspirin' wording in images please. Either clone the word out, or shoot with generic white tablets with no name on them.
benoitb
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:19AM
Now... can someone pass the Tylenols so I can clear up this headache of mine
zona
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:25AM
or some A(a)spirin - it helps better and less harmful to your kidneys

(Edited on 2005-01-19 11:28:00 by zona)
benoitb
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Posted Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:30AM
aspirin™

I feel much better now...

(Edited on 2005-01-19 11:33:21 by benoitb)
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