Video Keywording

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scrim
Posted Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:09AM

Hello Video Contributors,


We are starting this thread as an open discussion about the parameters of keywording for videos. You are all welcome to use it as the home for your questions and suggestions about key words specific to the techniques and approaches for video. It will be a way to keep the dialogue open, and ensure that we all continue to learn how to best facilitate successful searches for video content. Member ‘Dragon,’ one of our resident keywording experts, will be keeping an eye on the thread, answering questions as they arise, and implementing any suggestions that make sense within the existing framework. 


Please note that any discussions about content should stay in the keywording forum. 


As an example, let’s say that you had a file showing a family eating together that includes camera movement. If you had a question about how to keyword the people in the composition, or the meal they were eating, that would need to be asked in the keywording forum. If you wanted to know how to best keyword the camera movement, you could ask that question here. 


SO.... Welcome to our first ‘Video Keywording’ installment - 


As we have started to see contributors begin to upload footage from the ‘Caper in Berlin,’ they’ve been asking us how they should best keyword this new type of file so that it can be found within the collection.


As you may have seen in forum discussions before during and after the 2010 video ‘Lypse, we were interested in experimenting with a new direction in stock production, which we’re calling ‘character-driven stock.’ The search term that we arrived at for this style of footage shot at the Caper in Berlin is ‘Narrative Cinema.’ Early in the new year we are planning to post an article on the site to introduce this style of content to purchasers, and let them know how to search for it.


Member Dragon helped us brainstorm an approach, and what this conversation also revealed was that the keywords for video needed some attention. As a result, Chad (Dragon) has completed a sweep of the keyword categories and sub-categories within the ‘Moving Image’ section of the vocabulary this week. He has eliminated duplication, and expanded the available terms within the ‘Moving Image Technique’ category.


Let’s start here for the moment. Looking forward to continuing this dialogue as we go!


 


Best regards,


Andrea
benjikat
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Posted Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:08PM
/
/Is it possible for "Narrative Cinema" to be a child of "movie" as well? I still think that is the term most people will search for (even with an article explaining otherwise)

Nice to see that "Vertical Orientated Video" has finally got it's own keyword. It's one of the new children to the term "Moving Image". However many of the other new ones make no (immediate) sense to me as to how they should be used:
- Moving Image Format
- Moving Image Style
- Synergy Series
- Clip Length
- Adobe After Effects® - why is this here - is iStock looking to start a template collection?
- Moving Image Population Term
- Moving Image Activity Term


One of my pet gripes when searching as a buyer is the inability to filter between camera footage and cg clips. "NOT Animation" tends to only filter out a small proportion of the animated clips as so few of them have "Animation" as a keyword. IMO all video files should be forced to be keyworded with one of: "real camera footage" / Animation / video-cg composite. This particular issue has caused me much grief twice in the last couple of years where, when on a very very tight deadline, a colleague quickly showed me the loupe view of a file - which looked great, but turned out to be cg once the 1080 was brought to the edit suite. On both occassions, I had to go with it due to time constraints and was very unhappy to do so.

IMO videos also get keyworded with their potential uses far more than photos do - i.e. going beyond the bounds of physical description of content - I have never had keywords removed or files rejected for keywords - does that happen for the video files?

In terms of keywording for camera movement - it would be nice to have simple yes/no keywords for movement - i.e. locked off tripod shot vs in frame movement of any type (zoom, pan, tilt, handheld, jib, dolly, rack focus, combination of previous). As an editor who likes to keep things very dynamic, this would really help to filter out the static content for big search returns. Conversely, the static camera KW would be useful for web designers who are looking to make a flash banner for example.

I hope that creates a few topics for discussion!

Ben

(Edited on 2010-12-15 16:09:15 by benjikat)
Dragon
Posted Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:30AM
hey ben,


Thanx so much for the feedback it really helps to see what direction is good for clients as well as contributors. First off, I have added all the camera movment terms earlier this week with the revamping. I think i have everything covered but feel free to look and see if anything was missed. The camera movement terms are under moving image technique. They contain dolly shot, crane shot, zoom , panning, tilting , fades , shaky, stabilization shot (steadicam) and lockdown (tripod locked shot). There are many more in there also and the ones that matter have sub terms like pan left and pan right, tilt up and tilt down.


After talking with the video team i have also added entering and exiting frame and sub terms for every side they can enter/exit. There are film speeds and length of clip and also the diffrent formats are represented. As for your concern with the CG, we are working on a way to seperate CG from photos and videos. For now try using NOT in front of keywords to eliminate them from your search, the term we try to get people to use for CG is "digitally generated image" but you can also remove 3d , computer graphic and i think that should remove a majority. Unfortunatly unless the person keywords their files properly you will still get a few in your search.


Adobe After Effects® was moved over from Getty with the vocabulary migration and we are discussing the term and its usefullness now, but currently the term is not one we would use here at istock.


The term of movie is in the Cv for files that contain the event of a movie. The two formats of moving live footage are there, film for film scans and video for all digital content. We are still tweeking narrative cinema and it may move around a little but if the file is tagged with that keyword what ever editing is done to that term the files will still stay with it.


Hope this helps with the terms you were asking about and i think we are heading in a great direction for the video content on istock both from a contributor and client stand point.


-Chad

(Edited on 2010-12-16 07:38:52 by Dragon)
code6d
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Posted Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:30AM
Hi guys,


first of all: great idea to add more video keywords! "Dolly" until now translated as hand truck and I think that was not the best way to find dolly shots from a buyer's pov.


After taking a peek at what's been added, I had similar questions as Ben, i.e. how I should use clip length if I cannot enter a value there? However, I played around with it this morning and found out that if i enter "moving image" as a keyword, I get, among others, "moving image technique". I can check "moving image technique", but no "+" or further drop-down options emerge. This is a bit confusing. Instead, I get a new keyword at the top of the keyword list: "moving image technique". There, i can check - among others - "clip length". This does not make real sense at first, since I cannot choose anything for the length. Instead, it adds a new keyword at the top of the list "clip length", and there I can choose "less than 10 seconds" or "10 seconds or greater".


Is this a bug or the way it is intended to work? IMO it would be easier to type "moving image", check "moving image technique" in a dropdown, check "clip length" and in a dropdown, check "10 seconds or greater".


Or am I doing something wrong?


I will need some time to go through my files though. Oh, and with deep meta it does not work at all - I enter "moving image" - and there are no additional options. Same for "moving image technique".

Martin

(Edited on 2010-12-16 08:49:00 by code6d)
Dragon
Posted Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:19AM

Hey martin,


I can kinda see your confusion and i will try to elaborate a bit better. The controlled vocabulary works like a tree where terms like moving image and moving image technique are major terms that we stick smaller more defined terms underneath. Dont worry about keywording with these major terms as much, they are for me to group other terms together so things are not so crazy and much more organized. it is the terms under these catagories that target the compositions of your files.


Clip length is the major term and under it it has a term for clips 10 seconsds or less, 10 seconds or greater and 20 seconds or greater. there is also a term for greater clip lengths but these will not be of much use to istock, but we keep them in the CV incase they are useful later on. We have not added specific time running numbers as that secion and the amount of terms would get way to big. As you all begin to keyword your files with clip lengths it should allow clients looking for files that they require a minimum or maximum running time for their projects, an easier way to narrow down their search.


I have added as many synonyms as i could (and will add more if needed) to all the proper terms for composition. Try and add the terms you think will suit your file and let me know if you cannot find the terms you need.


As for dolly, dolly shot has always been in the vocabulary. We need terms both to describe the files composition and to describe what is in the file. dolly is mapping to the actual object, the terms for composition should be keyworded like you would use them to describe the shot. so crane shot is the composition, crane is an actual video or image of a crane.


So try and add the compositional terms to your files the way you would describe them and let me know how that works for you all.


-Chad
RoosterHD
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Posted Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:10AM
Hi Andrea, thank you for starting this thread and Chad, thank you for your expertise with this.


What is the most effective way of tagging a video series that, in addition to covering the main subject matter, covers secondary shots -- cut ins, reaction shots, etc?


An example: Say, I shoot a tennis match as my primary topic, then I turn the camera around for pickup shots: audience, wide, closeup, high-fives, guy selling beer, celebration, disappointment, ball hitting man in the crotch, etc. So now I have these "related shots" to the original master shot of a tennis match so that a potential buyer has infinite possibilities. How do I connect all the pieces? That is, for example, to keyword a reverse close up of a spectator yelling at the referee is limited, in that, I cannot describe what is not in the shot -- tennis, crowd, sporting event, etc. When shooting for coverage in video there needs to be a way to tag so that inspectors & buyers will know whether or not a given shot is related to a larger series because, in isolation, it may not make any sense at all. Am I making any sense here? -m

(Edited on 2010-12-16 12:38:47 by RoosterHD)
Dragon
Posted Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:26AM

I think i got what you are looking for mark. Currently if one file has multiple cut scenes the term "film montage" is for those files. If it is a series of files that could be used together you will have to describe that in the description field for now. I will talk to the video team and see if there might be a term we can add that will allow a client to know the files they are looking at have sister files in the sequence. You could also create a private light box linked to the file with all other sister files in the sequence and also add that to the description.


I will let you know what we figured out after talking with Jim and Andrea.


-Chad
RoosterHD
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Posted Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:18PM
Posted By Dragon:

I think i got what you are looking for mark. Currently if one file has multiple cut scenes the term "film montage" is for those files. If it is a series of files that could be used together you will have to describe that in the description field for now. I will talk to the video team and see if there might be a term we can add that will allow a client to know the files they are looking at have sister files in the sequence. You could also create a private light box linked to the file with all other sister files in the sequence and also add that to the description.


I will let you know what we figured out after talking with Jim and Andrea.


-Chad

Thanks Chad.
Dragon
Posted Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:29PM
No problem mark, sorry i might not be able to get back to you about it until next week as jim, andrea and lon seem to be out of the office today. but as soon as i get a chance to talk to them i will and then let you know what we have figured out.
RoosterHD
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Posted Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:31PM
Posted By Dragon:
No problem mark, sorry i might not be able to get back to you about it until next week as jim, andrea and lon seem to be out of the office today. but as soon as i get a chance to talk to them i will and then let you know what we have figured out.

That sounds great, I really appreciate your help. -m
Dragon
Posted Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:44PM
LOL right after the post I found jim. We have talked about it and A keyword term for sister files is just something we feel wont be as benificial as what I was recomending before.


Posted By Dragon:
If it is a series of files that could be used together you will have to describe that in the description field for now. You could also create a private light box linked to the file with all other sister files in the sequence and also add that to the description.


(Edited on 2010-12-16 14:45:01 by Dragon)
code6d
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Posted Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:31PM
Mark: just in case you're not using it already: you can link sister files in the description field real easy with deepmeta.
RoosterHD
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Posted Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:56PM
Posted By code6d:
Mark: just in case you're not using it already: you can link sister files in the description field real easy with deepmeta.

Martin, yes I've been using Deepmeta for a couple of months and it's terrific program. Be well, -m
simonkr
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Posted Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:54AM
Great forum posts... just a few questions from our side...

1. Do you have any info, which technical terms are more often used in search engines... is it more about clip lenghts or is it more about moving techniques... sometimes you need to eliminate some keywords in order to get them under 50 keywords... that is why I am asking this


2. If you can give a bit more explanation to the following tags, that would be great...:

MOVING IMAGE:
Moving Image Format ?
Moving Image Style ?
Narrative Cinema ?
Matte ?
Cinematography ?
Filming Point of View ?
Archival ?
Synergy Series ?
Adobe After Effects® ?
Moving Image Population Term ?
Film Composite ?
Moving Image Activity Term ?

moving image technique:
Lockdown ? (that is on a tripod, right?)
Film Speed ?
Masking ?
Tracking Shot ?
Scrolling ?

(Edited on 2010-12-17 02:56:48 by simonkr)
Dragon
Posted Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:24AM
hey simon, miss you and tia and i hope you both are doing well, you shouldnt live so far away LOL.


Ill do my best with all the above hehehe.


1. We dont have any info on compositional terms that clients find more useful, my best advice is to leave the ones in you think are most relevant to that file. Like a panning left shot of someone walking and you are tracking their movment, panning would probably be more relevant then the clip length. on the other hand it it was a stationary shot with movment in your frame the clips length would probably hold more to the client then the term lock down. hope this helps a little anyway smile


2. moving image format - is the medium in which the file was shot on (film for the old style films that are scanned into a computer and video for the new digital content that most people produce these days) under video you will find your diffrent formats such as HD video , standard video,interlace,progressive ect.


moving image style - is a catagory that will grow most likely over time, its the style of video. some terms exsist under that term like home movie and documentary style. other terms like horror , mystery , romance ect already exsist in the vocabulary for you guys to use, this section is created for film specific styles that has room to grow as we need.


Narrative Cinema - This is the new term that the video team has created for the new character based videos that they began in berlin and hope to make a bigger part of the istock video content.


Matte - this term is for when you guys include an alpha matte or processing plate technique in a file.


Filming Point of View - is term for when a camera is treated like someones or somethings eyes. The camera could be on a tripod or crane but if the view through the lens is like looking through someones or some animals or even an objects eyes this is a point of view shot. some of the terms below this are drivers point of view, Rat point of view , binocculars point of view ect so its like looking through the eyes of these things.


Archival - this term will rarely be used. It is for old video from times past it will always be film thats been scanned but its video with an historical value to it. Most old style film we have on istock is under the home movie catagory, but this one is here for the historical old film.


Moving image population term - This one is abit of a mystery to me. It came over from the getty CV and without getting rid of something that might be useful it remains for now. The term under however does seem to be useful to me that is why i have left it as is. the term below is implied people, i felt this term would be great for files where you see an action that is obviously made by a person but the person is not visible in the footage. Example ... close up of a beer bottle being poured in a glass. you see the bottle and the beer pouring but the hand of the person that is pouring the beer is not in frame. this would be a great place for the two terms of nobody (because there is nobody in the file) and the term implied people (because there must be someone pouring the beer you just canrt see them). I dont know how much use this term might be to clients but it is there for you guys to use.


Film composite - This term is for when a video contains either multiple video images overlayed in post production or when video and CG are merged in post production. the best example for this is your videos of tia having a video chat over a computer, because you impossed other videos together this becomes a composite.


Moving image activity term - is the catagory for terms that show a complete action in videos. such as someone standing up , some lying down , someone exiting or entering frame and crossing frame ect. there are actually quite a few terms ive created under this main term and it will grow over time as we see more terms that could be created.


Cinematography - this term still has me a bit confused since it more describes you guys as contributors more then it can any sort of video. so for now until i can pin it down , probably best to leave it out of keywords.


Synergy series and adobe after effects - we have contacted getty and are waiting for a reply from them to see what these terms might be ment for. They came again over from getty and we want to find out more about them before we do anything with these terms, so leave them out for now.


Moving image technique terms.....


lockdown - yes this term is for when the camera is placed stationary and doesnt move at all.


film speed - as i mentioned previously in the thread this term is for the length of your video file. there is 3 terms for you guys to use. 10 seconds or less, 10 seconds or greater and 20 seconds or greater. if your clip length is exactly 10 seconds i would suggest to use 10 seconds or less but you could use 10 seconds or greater but please stick to one. I totally dropped the ball here and i am sorry everyone. This term is to describe the speed of your finished video. film speed is the main term and the terms useful for you guys and clients are the ones under it in the vocabulary, such as slow motion, fast motion , real time and timelapse.


masking - this term i missed LOL. this term is just a redundancy of matte, I will be merging it with matte so after this post it will just be a synonym of matte. basically again it denotes an alpha channel or process plate added to your file.


Tracking shot - is a shot that tracks something in your video. maybe your following someones feet, or a bird as it flies through the air. Generally the subject seems to stay somewhat fixed in your frame as the background moves behind it.


Scrolling - this term is for dolly type shots or maybe even lockdown shots where the subject or multiple subjects enter frame from one side and move across exiting the other side in a constant flow. Alot of times these are created to loop so that the file scrolls on infinatly.





Hope this helps out a bit more with these terms smile

(Edited on 2010-12-17 09:16:06 by Dragon)

(Edited on 2010-12-17 09:24:02 by Dragon)

(Edited on 2010-12-17 12:33:47 by Dragon)
scrim
Posted Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:04AM
Hello, 

Thanks Chad for all your excellent help and advice, and thank you to all the contributors that are asking such great questions. We're pleased to see such a productive dialogue started. 

In reply to Ben's question about whether video keywords are reviewed, we do indeed monitor keywords, but we tend to not reject for them because we don't like to send files to wait again in our sometimes long queue. If there are a few keywords that we feel are extraneous, we'll just edit them.  

If however there is blatant spamming going on, we'll edit the first few files and send an approval note asking for the remaining files to be edited. Only if it becomes an on-going problem will we reject files for rogue keywording. 

Looking forward, with Chad's tidying of the keywords, and this thread started, we see this as an important step forward in continuing to educate contributors and buyers alike to optimize search outcomes for video content.

Thanks again,

Andrea
benjikat
Member is a Gold contributor and has 5,000 - 12,499 Video downloads
Posted Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:32AM
Thanks everyone for what is looking like it will be a very productive discussion.

re. Camera movement KWs - thanks for adding all the relevant camera movement terms - my point however was more about whether there could be a collective term for the camera movement (not just video movement) - having a positive term would be more useful as NOT searches tend to be very unreliable (as many files are missing important KWs). This "camera movement" term would be one that I would search with, as I would know that anyone who had used it for their files would be thinking "video" rather than "moving still". As an editor I specifically look on many projects for the moments in footage where there is a move in or out, where focus is found (if only for a moment) etc etc - I would not search for "dolly left" for example except in very rare circumstances as it is too specific, but it would be helpful to be about to drill down to those clips where there is intentional camera movement. Hope that makes sense.

There is also the term "feature film" I noticed - what is it's place in the CV?

Ben
Dragon
Posted Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:32AM
Feature film is in the Controlled vocabulary that came over from getty. as they do editorial content this term was for their photos that were most likely of celebrities attending feature film premiers and other related events to feature films. Also maybe other content that was taken of feature film sets or marketing.
vesperstock
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Posted Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:41AM
Thank you for doing this! As an example, trying to use the keyword "dolly" has been driving me batty for a little while now. However, I'm sure that particular one is useful for buyers of moving pictures.


Posted By Dragon:
Narrative Cinema - This is the new term that the video team has created for the new character based videos that they began in berlin and hope to make a bigger part of the istock video content.


I've been pulling dramatic action clips together in their own lightbox. Is this the same thing?


Film composite - This term is for when a video contains either multiple video images overlayed in post production or when video and CG are merged in post production. the best example for this is your videos of tia having a video chat over a computer, because you impossed other videos together this becomes a composite.


My thought is that the term "film" is redundant here as it can also apply to digital (and usually more so). I've tried a few times in the past to use the keywords "composite" or "compositing" to clips and no luck. I was surprised it wasn't in the regular CV since still images can be composited too.


Moving image activity term - is the catagory for terms that show a complete action in videos. such as someone standing up , some lying down , someone exiting or entering frame and crossing frame ect. there are actually quite a few terms ive created under this main term and it will grow over time as we see more terms that could be created.


Lost me here. I think I see what you're getting at but I'm not sure how this would work in a search. If it's complete action, then maybe "complete action" is the easier way to remember the keywords?


Cinematography - this term still has me a bit confused since it more describes you guys as contributors more then it can any sort of video. so for now until i can pin it down , probably best to leave it out of keywords.


Maybe this is appropriate only when you see a cinematographer working in the clip? So it's a keyword that applies to a person or the tools of their profession as opposed to a clip description for everything that's filmed. That way it can't get out of hand (like the way the keyword "business" has done )


Tracking shot - is a shot that tracks something in your video. maybe your following someones feet, or a bird as it flies through the air. Generally the subject seems to stay somewhat fixed in your frame as the background moves behind it.


Ambiguous, though. If I'm doing a tracking shot on set, then the camera is moving on dolly and tracks, but subjects may come in and out of frame. I see you've used the term "scrolling" for that (below) although it's not a term I've ever come across, so I'm not sure who would know to search for it.

If I'm doing a tracking shot in post-production, then I'm following the movement of part of the image using markers (eg. in After Effects) to either stabilize the shot or add other elements to the thing I'm tracking. Are you intending this to be the opposite of the moving image activity term? Again, I'm a little lost. Would buyers really search for these things?


Scrolling - this term is for dolly type shots or maybe even lockdown shots where the subject or multiple subjects enter frame from one side and move across exiting the other side in a constant flow. Alot of times these are created to loop so that the file scrolls on infinatly.


I see "Dutch tilt" is usable although it's a non-CV term. Worth adding. It's different to "canted" which implies the shot is static but the camera set on a tilt. A Dutch tilt is a camera move where the camera tilts during the shot.

"Hand held" or "handheld" should be included as keyword options for video. This is a common moving image technique. It's not a "Palmtop (Electronic Organizer)".

If you're developing a filters section, "bleach bypass" (another non-CV term) might be worth adding to the CV.
benjikat
Member is a Gold contributor and has 5,000 - 12,499 Video downloads
Posted Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:09AM
Tracking vs Dolly may be a US / Euro thing - I have always talked about "tracking shots" and also referred to the equipment as "tracking". I noticed however that most people at the Video'Lypse used "dolly" instead for both things.
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