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kelvinjay
Member is a Gold contributor and has 10,000 - 24,999 Photo downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Flash downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Illustration downloadsExclusiveMember has won a contestForum Moderator
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:13PM
I don't see why you'd have to send a camera off to get it fixed if it's just affected by sensor spots. A simple wet clean apparently fixes the issue and you can get that done at any decent camera store or even do it yourself.
LeeAnnWhite
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Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:09PM
Posted By kelvinjay:
I don't see why you'd have to send a camera off to get it fixed if it's just affected by sensor spots. A simple wet clean apparently fixes the issue and you can get that done at any decent camera store or even do it yourself.


First, personally, I don't know what a "wet clean" is so I don't think I would want to experiment with it on my brand new $2K body....2nd, it's a brand new camera with a warranty that I would hope would cover such issues - why should I PAY somebody to clean it for me when it's only 2 or 3 weeks old?  It should be good out of the box and I expect either B & H or Nikon to make it good.  My local shop charges $60 for a cleaning and I don't think I should be stuck paying for it if the camera was defective to start with.  


FWIW I priced the camera and lens at my local camera shop (owned by Calumet) and then gave them the specifics of the deal I found online at B & H and asked them if they could match any of it at all and the guy was like "NO CAN DO".  Well, the difference was a net savings of $476 USD.   Not exactly chump change IMO.  


(At the time I ordered from B & H they were throwing in a bag, a spare battery and an Extreme Pro 32GB SD card AND they were offering a $150 discount off the lens I wanted if I bought it at the same time as the body...add these things to the fact that by ordering online I didn't have to pay my local 6% state sales tax and it was enough to say they got my business when the local guy wouldn't cut a deal on any of it.)
mlwinphotoCLOSED
Member is a Bronze contributor and has 250 - 2,499 Photo downloads
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:28PM
Posted By LeeAnnWhite:

Posted By kelvinjay:
I don't see why you'd have to send a camera off to get it fixed if it's just affected by sensor spots. A simple wet clean apparently fixes the issue and you can get that done at any decent camera store or even do it yourself.



First, personally, I don't know what a "wet clean" is so I don't think I would want to experiment with it on my brand new $2K body....2nd, it's a brand new camera with a warranty that I would hope would cover such issues - why should I PAY somebody to clean it for me when it's only 2 or 3 weeks old?  It should be good out of the box and I expect either B & H or Nikon to make it good.  My local shop charges $60 for a cleaning and I don't think I should be stuck paying for it if the camera was defective to start with.  


FWIW I priced the camera and lens at my local camera shop (owned by Calumet) and then gave them the specifics of the deal I found online at B & H and asked them if they could match any of it at all and the guy was like "NO CAN DO".  Well, the difference was a net savings of $476 USD.   Not exactly chump change IMO.  


(At the time I ordered from B & H they were throwing in a bag, a spare battery and an Extreme Pro 32GB SD card AND they were offering a $150 discount off the lens I wanted if I bought it at the same time as the body...add these things to the fact that by ordering online I didn't have to pay my local 6% state sales tax and it was enough to say they got my business when the local guy wouldn't cut a deal on any of it.)


Potential problems with a new product is one the main reasons I buy locally and establish a relationship with my local dealer.  Yes, I occasionally pay more but the fact that they stand behind what they sell and accept returns, no questions asked, within a reasonable time frame are well worth the additional cost, if there is one.


A "wet clean" involves using a swab and specific cleaning fluid to remove oil, or whatever, from the sensor.  There are several manufactureres of such products.


I would contact Nikon and see what their policy is on sending the camera to them for the cleaning.  Returning it to B&H and expecting a new camera (providing they would send you one) without the oil problem may be wishful thinking from what I am reading about the D600.


 
Whiteway
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Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:43AM
A brand new camera should be good out of the box. I don't think that sending away a brand new camera for instant rectification is acceptable either. If it's not good out of the box, you should be able to get an instant replacement. That's how it works in UK.
kelvinjay
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Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:27AM
A new product should obviously be ok out of the box. The only point I was making is that rectifying it isn't something that requires any particularly rare technical skill or exotic equipment. You could get it done at many local camera stores, if you just want to get on with taking pictures and enjoying your new purchase. If you're not willing to do that or not able to do it yourself, sure send it back to Nikon or wherever.
Difydave
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Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:31AM

I thought (and correct me if I'm wrong) that most warranties specifically excluded dirt on the sensor.  Cleaning the sensor by anyone apart from the manufacturer by any means that touches the sensor normally voids the warranty though. (presumably only on the sensor though)


It looks like the only "safe" option is to send a camera back to Nikon for service. I would doubt if a dirty sensor would warrant a replacement camera.


If the camera is sent away for a free (presumably in this case) wet clean, and the problem reoccurs, it could soon become a painful process sending a camera back and forth.
ClarkandCompany
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Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:52AM
It's sometimes wise to wait  a little while after a launch of a new product before buying one. Manufacturers usually sort out teething problems after a few weeks of the launch. Might be worth looking at Nikon Professional Services membership. Not all products qualify just the "pro" one's and you need two to qualify I know the D800 does so that makes me a "Pro" and I get a badge that says so too .If I got a dirty sensor straight out of the box I expect it to be cleaned at Nikon's expense.
Whiteway
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Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:49AM
Posted By Difydave:

I thought (and correct me if I'm wrong) that most warranties specifically excluded dirt on the sensor.

I just checked out the warranty terms and conditions of an up-to-date Canon and there seems to be no specific mention of the sensor. A clean sensor is surely the least you can expect!
Difydave
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Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:16AM

^I'm fairly sure that the Pentax warranty mentions it. And I'm sure I've seen mention of it before. A quick online search seems to confirm that most makers don't cover it, although they (at least some) will seemingly clean the sensor for free on a camera in warranty which is taken to them.


I'd agree  that "out of the box" I'd expect a camera to be perfect. The case in question would seem to be a camera that is a couple of weeks old though. While I wouldn't really expect problems with a camera that age, I don't know how much joy you'd get arguing the toss about where sensor dirt had come from with a maker.
LeeAnnWhite
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Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:37AM
Just reporting back in about the D600 sensor spot issue and what I found out.  I just called both B & H and Nikon.  Since I am within the 30 day return policy with B & H they offered to exchange the camera for another one - but that won't solve my problem if this is a known issue with pretty much all of these early releases so I don't want to do an exchange.  (Important to note that my 30 days went back to my original order date, not the date that it was shipped or the date that I received it.)  

Then I called Nikon Cust. Serv. - they said that normally sensor spots are not covered under the warranty but because this IS a known and widespread problem they WILL clean it for free (although I will have to pay for the shipping from my end to send it in to them).  I asked if there was any way that I could just take it to a local shop for cleaning and get reimbursed and the answer was that since it's so new that NO camera shops are authorized to perform ANY repairs or any sort on it.  Technically even a local Nikon dealer would have to send it in to one of their 2 US repair centers, even for a sensor cleaning. sad  They are sending me an email with further instructions - before any of this happens I have to submit some images (the guy thought 3 images) which show the spots then they'll give me additional instructions to return the camera.   With the US Thanksgiving holiday this week I'm a tad busy and will be away for a few days so I'll probably have to wait to deal with this next week.  I would like to have the camera over Thanksgiving.  They said it will take a week to 10 days.  So that's that.  Nikon acknowledges it's a problem and will take care of it once I jump through a couple of hoops to prove the problem and then find time to pack it up and pick a week or so to be without the camera.

(Edited on 2012-11-19 08:38:41 by LeeAnnWhite)

(Edited on 2012-11-19 08:39:06 by LeeAnnWhite)

(Edited on 2012-11-19 08:39:45 by LeeAnnWhite)
Whiteway
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Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:32AM
I'd take the exchange camera - it might be alright.

I don't know if the real issue is known? In other words, is it known why these sensor spots are appearing? And will it keep recurring?
LeeAnnWhite
Member is a contributor and has less than 250 Photo downloads
Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:03PM
Posted By Whiteway:
I'd take the exchange camera - it might be alright.

I don't know if the real issue is known? In other words, is it known why these sensor spots are appearing? And will it keep recurring?


They are apparently some sort of oil spots from the manufacturing process or production or something...and there's been enough problems that Nikon isn't fighting cleaning them for free.  They totally admitted there was a problem with the model - I don't think it's an isolated issue.  I don't know if it will recur again later once it's been cleaned.  dpreview reported it to be found on like 20 cameras or something like that that they tested so I think until the production process has been going on for awhile I wouldn't trust a replacement just yet.  I would want all the defective ones to have worked their way through the system.   Hopefully they will get this problem resolved in the future but for now...me thnks I'd just as soon get this one cleaned.


 
Feverstockphoto
Member is a Bronze contributor and has 250 - 2,499 Photo downloadsExclusive
Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:43PM
If i bought a camera that had this same oil spot problem, i would not waste my time sending it back. I would just clean it myself using the wet method. It's fairly quick and simple, just like changing a lightbulb, almost! . Done with a little care and patience, it will be spotless! You don't actually come in contact with sensor itself, just the filter in front of it. You might have to do it a few times throughout the camera's life depending on how you use it and other factors. There are several Youtube videos that show how it's done safely and easily. Yes it would be nice if it was not nessecary to clean camera but every dslr i have used needs it on occasion. It's just part of the game! .
gipi23
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Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:52PM
Bare in mind that coming down to f/22 or even lower will reveal spots that might not be visible at f/11 at all, as it is impossible not to have any spots at all. Even 'perfect wet clean' might not be able to get rid of everything, but then, what aperture one needs most? Certainly, if not for macro work, or long-exposure, it is not anything over f/8, usually.
Feverstockphoto
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Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:10PM
Posted By Feverstockphoto:
Done with a little care and patience, it will be spotless!

Quoting myself . I'll add done right it will be spotless at f/22 or any other aperture and zommed in 300%! For how long is a different matter .
LeeAnnWhite
Member is a contributor and has less than 250 Photo downloads
Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:35PM
Posted By Feverstockphoto:
If i bought a camera that had this same oil spot problem, i would not waste my time sending it back. I would just clean it myself using the wet method. It's fairly quick and simple, just like changing a lightbulb, almost! smile. Done with a little care and patience, it will be spotless! You don't actually come in contact with sensor itself, just the filter in front of it. You might have to do it a few times throughout the camera's life depending on how you use it and other factors. There are several Youtube videos that show how it's done safely and easily. Yes it would be nice if it was not nessecary to clean camera but every dslr i have used needs it on occasion. It's just part of the game! smile.

Well, I don't have the guts and am not comfortable with doing it myself...especially since Nikon told me that even retail dealers have not been given authorization to clean or repair the D600's yet.  I don't want to risk screwing it up.  And trust me, if anybody can screw up changing a light bulb it would be me.  Heck, I can't even clean my lens without screwing it up.  No thanks to the sensor cleaning.  
gipi23
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Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:38PM
Well, L.A.W, you can't f.c.u.k it up, as you do not touch the actual sensor so give it a go, really.
Feverstockphoto
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Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:10PM
Well i was once told that nothing is without risk or something like that but fortune favours the brave. I hate changing lightbulbs but when there's no one else around and i'm in the dark it's a choice between the terrifying ~ electrifying! .
kelvinjay
Member is a Gold contributor and has 10,000 - 24,999 Photo downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Flash downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Illustration downloadsExclusiveMember has won a contestForum Moderator
Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:09PM

Posted By gipi23:
Well, L.A.W, you can't f.c.u.k it up, as you do not touch the actual sensor so give it a go, really.


While you may not touch the sensor itself, if you drown the thing in too much fluid or drag some hard detritus across the filter with the swab and scratch that, you could still end up with a very expensive repair bill. I'm not trying to scare monger, I believe most people following the instructions correctly could wet clean their own sensors, but I totally understand those who'd prefer to get an expert to do it.
gipi23
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Posted Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:44AM
Of course, Kelvin. But the experts also had their first go at it, being very careful and following the instructions, one should be able to do it. Still, if not confident enough, I do, too, understand they have somebody else to do the job.
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