BM Discussion: Updated Jan 25th

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AtomA
Member is a Gold contributor and has 10,000 - 24,999 Illustration downloadsExclusive iStockphoto IllustratorMember has had a File Of The Week.
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:54AM
 


I assume the changes have taken root now?


If so then new images seem to be filtering in a little better initially, but there's still every indication that no matter how well they perform they're just going to sink to the bottom. So i still see no reason to upload unfortunately. 


It seems that since the september site changes, download data or anything else that effects the files BM performance is not making it's way to the BM.


I uploaded 4 files over the course of december, all the same subject matter, all accepted at the same price band.  This meant that i had a very good BM barometer to see what was happening. There's 2 keywords i've been testing for these files that they all shared. 2 of these files had several first week downloads. This would of normally boosted them up the search and up the order of my portfolio, at the very least it would of moved them ahead of the other 2 files i uploaded.


Unfortunately all i'm seeing is the same steady drop in the EXACT order i uploaded them, this suggests to me that no data they've accrued post acceptance is effecting them. Their early download performance, exclusivity and relevency should be sending them up the search not to the very back. I notice similar trends with all uploads since september and to a lesser degree with files pre september. (if anyone wants to confirm then taken into account acceptance date, price band and file type)


Could it be that the fixes haven't fully taken root yet? If they have then can we confirm whether or not this will be addressed soon?  All post september new files are dropping through the various portfolio, lightbox and search BMs in the order they were uploaded*. This does not feel like a dial issue, more like something is outright broken. Would really like to be able to upload again but as things stand i feel it would be a complete waste of time.

EDIT - just did the various checks again and there now seems to be one or 2 very slight exceptions to these observations now, where as before there was none. For the most part though what i've said above seems to be the case and on closer inspection these problems seem to occur from late september onwards. 

(Edited on 2013-01-25 13:37:09 by AtomA)
konradlew
Member is a Diamond contributor and has 25,000 - 199,999 Photo downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Video downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Flash downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Illustration downloadsExclusiveExclusive iStockphoto IllustratorExclusive iStockphoto VideographerMember has had a File Of The Week
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:56AM
Posted By Lobo:
Bear in mind, everyone, these are new tools. BM will never please everyone. It's just not possible for everyone out there to be in the high five line up. We're working on it.




It is not about who is up, but what is up, and also it is important how the search results looks like in general.


Now we have VERY few old good-sellers plus never ending ocean of fresh-0DL images. And what is more important.. sometimes the search results look like complete mess. I would be scared as a customer.
Juanmonino
Member is a Black Diamond contributor and has more than 200,000 Photo downloadsExclusiveAwarded to fabulous photographers with more than 100,000 downloads
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:35AM

Posted By Lobo:
Bear in mind, everyone, these are new tools. BM will never please everyone. It's just not possible for everyone out there to be in the high five line up. We're working on it.

Of course thats clear, what I am saying is that E+ in general re pushed back in BM, my E+ files and my neighbor E+ too. Also, the number of E+ sales now compared to the number of E+ sales I used to have is way down to was it used to be. i am not saying if I am selling more or less, that not the issue now, what i am saying is that the percentage of E+ files sold are way down. I also noticed checking different keyword combinations that E+ files do not appear in first BM pages. I am in US and I am also checking with another friend contributor in Spain, and he seems to be in the same boat.

(Edited on 2013-01-25 09:36:23 by Juanmonino)
duncan1890
Member is a Black Diamond contributor and has more than 200,000 Photo downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 125 Audio downloadsMember is a Bronze contributor and has 250 - 2,499 Flash downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Illustration downloadsExclusiveExclusive iStockphoto Flash ArtistMember has had a submission accepted to the Designer SpotlightMember has had a File Of The WeekAwarded to fabulous photographers with more than 100,000 downloads
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:41AM
/ /Too much emphasis on the new, again. When I search using the words OLD PAPER I am seeing around 13 files in the first 50 results that should not be there. Badly keyworded new files are beating successful old files, it just looks bad.
Lobo
This user has the power to wield the BanHammer, a weapon forged in the fires of hell for that get-off-my-planet quality you can't get anywhere else. You betta reckonize.Forum Moderator
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:44AM
I'm going to try and manage expectations in here. BM will never be static. It will change and evolve in perpetuity. So don't expect things to stay the same forever. Give the tools and Searchfairy some time. There is no quick fix. We will see all sorts of things.
IvanJekic
Member is a Bronze contributor and has 250 - 2,499 Photo downloadsExclusive
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:45AM
I already confirmed that E+ files are buried. No exposure, whatsoever. That's what makes this situation unsustainable. We were told to add our best non-Vetta files to E+ and now our best work is gone from BM!

(Edited on 2013-01-25 09:47:07 by IvanJekic)
Juanmonino
Member is a Black Diamond contributor and has more than 200,000 Photo downloadsExclusiveAwarded to fabulous photographers with more than 100,000 downloads
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:53AM

Posted By Lobo:
I'm going to try and manage expectations in here. BM will never be static. It will change and evolve in perpetuity. So don't expect things to stay the same forever. Give the tools and Searchfairy some time. There is no quick fix. We will see all sorts of things.

Lobo, we know BM will change and it is not an static creature, but the tendency of the actual BM is to bury E+ files in general, old E+ files, new E+ files, my E+ files, his/her E+ files, yesterday and today, please help us in this one so tomorrow E+ files can also have the chance to have a presence in BM first pages.

(Edited on 2013-01-25 09:53:35 by Juanmonino)
dejanristovski
Member is a Gold contributor and has 10,000 - 24,999 Photo downloadsMember has had a File Of The Week.
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:56AM
Lobo said before 6 hours to wait a few hours, do not panic ....
   we can not be all high position ... new BM, there are few sales, it looks bad for my position, I hope will correct

(Edited on 2013-01-25 10:11:16 by dejanristovski)
asiseeit
Member is a Black Diamond contributor and has more than 200,000 Photo downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Video downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Flash downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Illustration downloadsExclusiveExclusive iStockphoto VideographerAwarded to fabulous photographers with more than 100,000 downloads
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:00AM
Ran several single searches and BM looks good from here. Very few 0 dls on the first page, lots of older files. Some E+, lots of exclusive files. Not sure what the complaining is about now... the BM is supposed to change... and sales are never static either. 
konradlew
Member is a Diamond contributor and has 25,000 - 199,999 Photo downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Video downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Flash downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Illustration downloadsExclusiveExclusive iStockphoto IllustratorExclusive iStockphoto VideographerMember has had a File Of The Week
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:10AM

^^^


Keywords: spring, meadow


How much 0 DL files?: 187/200
Forrestbro
Member is a Bronze contributor and has 250 - 2,499 Photo downloadsMember is a Diamond contributor and has 12,500 - 99,999 Video downloadsExclusiveExclusive iStockphoto VideographerMember has had a File Of The Week
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:22AM
This new Best Match really seems to be favoring new files and old files with downloads, not much middle ground.

Try a Video search for "wildlife", out the first 200 videos, none has any downloads.

Video search for "Nature", out of the first 200 videos, 7 old Vetta videos with high downloads and 193 videos with 0 downloads.
IvanJekic
Member is a Bronze contributor and has 250 - 2,499 Photo downloadsExclusive
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:27AM
Posted By asiseeit:
Not sure what the complaining is about now... the BM is supposed to change... and sales are never static either. 

Yeah, stir the fire asiseeit. The HQ management is very inert (or just as it seems when viewed from here) and the LAST thing we need are the comments "not sure what the complaining is about now". Just because you're not dealing with issues does not mean BM is okay.

But I'll tell you what is it all about. For a test I entered "green apple" keywords and I got this: BM RESULTS

In the same time the results from our main competitor look like SNIPPED

Which one do you prefer? Which one seem more relevant? THAT is what's wrong here, besides killing E+ and other files.

(Edited on 2013-01-25 10:37:05 by kelvinjay)
sjlocke
Member is a Black Diamond contributor and has more than 200,000 Photo downloadsMember is a Gold contributor and has 5,000 - 12,499 Video downloadsMember is a Bronze contributor and has 125 - 1,249 Audio downloadsMember is a Bronze contributor and has 250 - 2,499 Flash downloadsMember is a Silver contributor and has 2,500 - 9,999 Illustration downloadsExclusiveExclusive iStockphoto IllustratorExclusive iStockphoto Flash ArtistExclusive iStockphoto VideographerMember has had a File Of The Week
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:28AM

Posted By IvanJekic:
But I'll tell you what is it all about. For a test I entered "green apple" keywords and I got this: BM RESULTS


Looks pretty good to me. If I wanted all isolated apples, I'd add "isolated".
Box5
Member is a Bronze contributor and has 250 - 2,499 Photo downloadsExclusive
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:34AM
Looking at my own portfolio by BM (understanding this isn't always the best test) my Agency files (I mean file) moved way down the sort, and the Vetta and E+ are mostly quite high in the sort. Just an observation. Too soon to pass judgement.
konradlew
Member is a Diamond contributor and has 25,000 - 199,999 Photo downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Video downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Flash downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Illustration downloadsExclusiveExclusive iStockphoto IllustratorExclusive iStockphoto VideographerMember has had a File Of The Week
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:37AM
Good point Forrestbro... Where are the files from those categories...:

1 month old >10 DLs?
5 month old >50 DLs?
1 year old > 200 DLs?
2 year old > 500 DLs?
4 year old > 1000 DLs?
(*numbers should by adjusted(lowered) for video files)

Now it doesn't have any sense, we already have one "Sort by age" and BM shouldn't be a copy of it.

(Edited on 2013-01-25 10:39:19 by konradlew)
Forrestbro
Member is a Bronze contributor and has 250 - 2,499 Photo downloadsMember is a Diamond contributor and has 12,500 - 99,999 Video downloadsExclusiveExclusive iStockphoto VideographerMember has had a File Of The Week
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:46AM

But I'll tell you what is it all about. For a test I entered "green apple" keywords and I got this: BM RESULTS

In the same time the results from our main competitor look like ALSO SNIPPED
Which one do you prefer? Which one seem more relevant? THAT is what's wrong here, besides killing E+ and other files.


The istock results are not horrible, but I agree that the competitor results are more what I would expect for a search of green apple. The iStock results mostly have green apples in the photo, but in about have of them, the apple is much more a secondary element. If you look at any one of the photos from the istock results and had to pick the top keyword the would describe that photo, in over half the cases you would use a keyword other than green apple to describe the photo. You would use keywords like Man, Women, Children, Classroom, Honey.

(Edited on 2013-01-25 10:47:33 by Forrestbro)

(Edited on 2013-01-25 10:54:49 by kelvinjay)
IvanJekic
Member is a Bronze contributor and has 250 - 2,499 Photo downloadsExclusive
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:54AM
Posted By sjlocke:


Posted By IvanJekic:
But I'll tell you what is it all about. For a test I entered "green apple" keywords and I got this: BM RESULTS



Looks pretty good to me. If I wanted all isolated apples, I'd add "isolated".

With all due respect I'll have to disagree with you here. I wanted - plain and simple - a green apple. Nothing more, nothing less. I didn't want people, kids or grandma holding an apple, nor cake and apples. Nor series of images with chalkboard with apple on the books. I wanted exactly what the competitor offered - a green apple.
ilbusca
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Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:55AM

Personally, I see very old files(2003-2007) mixed with very new files (2013).


All my best files in the range 2011-2012 are lost.
kelvinjay
Member is a Gold contributor and has 10,000 - 24,999 Photo downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Flash downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Illustration downloadsExclusiveMember has won a contestForum Moderator
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:56AM
The topic is the BM here at iStock, not what any other site may do.

Please consider that before posting links, screen grabs etc.

Thanks.
ElementalImaging
Member is a Gold contributor and has 10,000 - 24,999 Photo downloadsExclusive
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:57AM
Not sure I understand all the implications of combining first terms and secondary terms in the search. I tried "Balloon" + "Hot Air" vs. "Hot Air Balloon". Completely different results: number of files, order, etc. For instance-just over 600 photos in the "Balloon" + "Hot Air" and greater than 999 in the "hot air balloon". The first 200 of the "Hot Air Balloon" also contain many files that are balloons, but not Hot Air Balloons, while the "Balloon" + "Hot Air" seems better but has missed hundreds of images with Hot Air Balloons subjects.
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