Google Drive Update + Jan 23

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KLSbear
Member is a Bronze contributor and has 250 - 2,499 Photo downloads
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:18PM
Google Drive Image Search has a notice that says the images are labeled for commercial use with a "learn more" link.  I clicked on it and followed the trail, finally sending this e-mail to Google:


Hi - your Google Drive stock images says that they are labeled (not licensed) for commercial use with a link to "learn more".  That takes you to an article saying that it's up to the user to figure out what license is available, followed by this warning:  Before reusing content that you’ve found, you should verify that its license is legitimate, and check the exact terms of reuse stated in the license. For example, most licenses require that you give credit to the image creator when reusing an image. Google has no way of knowing whether the license is legitimate, so we aren’t making any representation that the content is actually lawfully licensed.
 
How is one supposed to find out about legitimate image licenses?  There is no link back to the source, no listing of the source and reference to the copyright owner or artist.



This is the response I got back: 
Hey Karen,  You just may get your answer in the "Google Drive Help Forum"  http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!forum/drive
Just pick a discussion category, jump in and post your question.  You'll soon have your answer.
Cheers, Shannon



That casual response and lax attitude is concerning.  It says to me: "We have no clue and we really don't care, that's your problem, not ours - go find your own crowd-sourced answer that may or may not be correct."  It was sent from a no-reply address too so no opportunity for conversation or response to their "help" desk.


It really is a "use at your own risk" situation but Google has set it up where most users will think otherwise

(Edited on 2013-01-29 17:19:21 by KLSbear)
ftwitty
Member is a Diamond contributor and has 25,000 - 199,999 Photo downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Flash downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Illustration downloadsExclusive
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:41PM
Posted By sjlocke:



Posted By IvanJekic:
So I thought not only iS suffered, but Getty too. But thanks for answering me Sean.



No, Getty doesn't suffer. Getty licensed the content it holds from its contributors. It could have used its wholly owned content for this, but didn't.



Gee, wonder why.





And FWIW, the sales drop has been over the last few years, not just 2013 or 2012. It's been a slow and steady net decline for most contributors who have been here a decent amount of time.
microdon
Member is a Bronze contributor and has 250 - 2,499 Photo downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Video downloads
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:46PM
Posted By sjlocke:


Posted By IvanJekic:
Anyone know what Getty contributors are saying? Because I think I read somewhere that those were mostly Getty's photos... Are they complaining too?



Actually, there aren't any of "Getty's photos", afaik. They are all images whose copyright is held outside of Getty, and Getty is just contracted to properly license the content.

Just FYI and as an answer to this question, there are plenty of images in the Google Drive Deal that are from a variety of RF collections, from the Getty site.  These are not "wholy owned Getty Content, but as with the istock content they are the creations of contracted photographers who never thought that their work would be  given away so cheaply, and with so little regard for the copyright holders.  We too are irritated, and protesting in our own ways about this.  
clearviewstock
Member is a Diamond contributor and has 25,000 - 199,999 Photo downloads
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:53PM
(KLSBear) I got a similar response, and nothing has been forthcoming from Istock - all we have is google saying free for personal and commercial use. Google also do not specify that the images have to be used within google docs. 


It really requires google to specify whether there are restrictions. As they havent done so I dont think there are any. As a user I would just assume any commercial use including what is normally an EL, considered a sensitive use, and including reselling or distribution on personal sites (most micros have copyright holder restrictions), ebay etc. A creative commons licence would have been more restrictive.


Istock said at the beginning of the thread they are working with google to refine the deal, but when and whether this is part of the refinement who knows... (even If it is, afaik licence changes and restrictions cant be applied retrospectively)

(Edited on 2013-01-29 18:04:55 by clearviewstock)
ARTPUPPY
Member is a Diamond contributor and has 25,000 - 199,999 Illustration downloadsExclusive iStockphoto IllustratorMember has had a File Of The Week
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:09PM
Posted By KLSbear:
Google Drive Image Search has a notice that says the images are labeled for commercial use with a "learn more" link.  I clicked on it and followed the trail, finally sending this e-mail to Google:



Hi - your Google Drive stock images says that they are labeled (not licensed) for commercial use with a link to "learn more".  That takes you to an article saying that it's up to the user to figure out what license is available, followed by this warning:  Before reusing content that you’ve found, you should verify that its license is legitimate, and check the exact terms of reuse stated in the license. For example, most licenses require that you give credit to the image creator when reusing an image. Google has no way of knowing whether the license is legitimate, so we aren’t making any representation that the content is actually lawfully licensed.
 
How is one supposed to find out about legitimate image licenses?  There is no link back to the source, no listing of the source and reference to the copyright owner or artist.




This is the response I got back: 

Hey Karen,  You just may get your answer in the "Google Drive Help Forum"  http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!forum/drive
Just pick a discussion category, jump in and post your question.  You'll soon have your answer.
Cheers, Shannon




That casual response and lax attitude is concerning.  It says to me: "We have no clue and we really don't care, that's your problem, not ours - go find your own crowd-sourced answer that may or may not be correct."  It was sent from a no-reply address too so no opportunity for conversation or response to their "help" desk.


It really is a "use at your own risk" situation but Google has set it up where most users will think otherwise

(Edited on 2013-01-29 17:19:21 by KLSbear)

Email to Google probably isn't going to help. It's either going to be an automated responce or from a young kid who has no idea of this subject. You'll need to contact a laywer and have them write a letter (send it registered) with your issues/questions regarding your image to the right person at Google. At the very least you'll get a reply that could give you some more info on all this.
KLSbear
Member is a Bronze contributor and has 250 - 2,499 Photo downloads
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:48PM
Posted By ARTPUPPY:
Email to Google probably isn't going to help. It's either going to be an automated responce or from a young kid who has no idea of this subject. You'll need to contact a laywer and have them write a letter (send it registered) with your issues/questions regarding your image to the right person at Google. At the very least you'll get a reply that could give you some more info on all this.

I was just curious to see what response the average user would get if they followed the "learn more" link if they wanted to find out about using the images.  I was somewhat surprised to see the answers was even more useless than I expected and actually told you to crowd-source the answer as if that could be trusted to be correct.  To be honest, I don't think she even understood what I was asking and she just deflected the issue back to the forum.
JoeGough
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Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:27PM
Posted By Lobo:


Posted By DaveBolton:

Posted By whitemay:
My son works in publishing. The word has got around and iStock and Getty are now persona non grata with many image buyers.


Great, Linda. Just great.


This isn't fact, it's something her son said to her. He is in publishing. Thats all I we know. I would prefer people refrain from adding unsubstantiated claims in here. We can make a bunch of assumptions based on things that are real but that doesn't mean every statement generated from those assumptions are fact.

I understand, folks. I just don't know what it accomplishes.

Istock (or Getty) could always reprudicate such unsubstantiated rumours by publishing a few 'fact'-based statistics, however selectively. Until then we only have our own falling/rising sales or income on which to base our assumptions. I know what my data indicates. Might just be me though.
whitemay
Member is a Diamond contributor and has 25,000 - 199,999 Photo downloadsExclusive
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:19AM
Posted By JoeGough:

Posted By Lobo:



Posted By DaveBolton:


Posted By whitemay:
My son works in publishing. The word has got around and iStock and Getty are now persona non grata with many image buyers.



Great, Linda. Just great.



This isn't fact, it's something her son said to her. He is in publishing. Thats all I we know. I would prefer people refrain from adding unsubstantiated claims in here. We can make a bunch of assumptions based on things that are real but that doesn't mean every statement generated from those assumptions are fact.

I understand, folks. I just don't know what it accomplishes.


Istock (or Getty) could always reprudicate such unsubstantiated rumours by publishing a few 'fact'-based statistics, however selectively. Until then we only have our own falling/rising sales or income on which to base our assumptions. I know what my data indicates. Might just be me though.


As I said earlier, I apologise for mentioning any part of my chat with my son - it wasn't helpful at all. I did point out to him, though, that to avoid buying from iStock doesn't help us one bit! However, the Google Drive story is all over the internet and it would be very unlikely that it would be missed by many people in publishing.


Let's not forget that creatives hate 'corporations' and that's one of the reasons iStock was so successful. It had that offbeat, anarchic quality which appealed to creatives - together with cheaper prices which could then be inflated when invoicing clients, of course - which other, bigger agencies did not have. That advantage has now all been lost in the great wide world of business.


Now I'll crawl back under my rock and shut up.
CaseyHillPhoto
Member is a Silver contributor and has 2,500 - 9,999 Photo downloadsExclusive
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:17AM
Remember when iStock was "the designer's dirty little secret"? Yeah... those were the dirty little days. We should do that again. Maybe we'd all start making money again.
IvanJekic
Member is a Bronze contributor and has 250 - 2,499 Photo downloadsExclusive
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:42AM
Posted By whitemay:

Let's not forget that creatives hate 'corporations' and that's one of the reasons iStock was so successful. It had that offbeat, anarchic quality which appealed to creatives - together with cheaper prices which could then be inflated when invoicing clients, of course - which other, bigger agencies did not have. That advantage has now all been lost in the great wide world of business.


Now I'll crawl back under my rock and shut up.

Oh, how I know and feel exactly what you're saying, about corporations and tie tightening and what iS used to be. I don't have enough words to describe how I dislike sterile "businessman" logic, clothing, fake smiles and everything business-accountants-lawyers-related.
But I'm afraid that offbeat stuff ended the day when iS was sold.
luissantos84
Member is a Bronze contributor and has 250 - 2,499 Photo downloads
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:28AM
aren't you guys tired of discussing with Google? are the snacks that good there? Sean opened the topic regarding this matter on Jan 10th, how hard is to end this unfortunate deal?
dmbaker
Member is a Diamond contributor and has 25,000 - 199,999 Photo downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Flash downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Illustration downloads
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:11AM
Very hard I suspect, that's the problem.
rimglow
Member is a Gold contributor and has 10,000 - 24,999 Photo downloads
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:26AM
Here's what I want to hear from HQ: We will no longer sell images, from iStock or any Partner Programs, to any company that strips the metadata, and then gives those images away for free.
cafillu
Member is a Silver contributor and has 2,500 - 9,999 Illustration downloadsExclusive iStockphoto Illustrator
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:03AM
Were there illustrations in this deal, or photos only?
koi88
Member is a Bronze contributor and has 250 - 2,499 Photo downloadsMember is a Bronze contributor and has 250 - 1,249 Video downloads
Posted Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:30AM
Posted By luissantos84:
aren't you guys tired of discussing with Google? are the snacks that good there? Sean opened the topic regarding this matter on Jan 10th, how hard is to end this unfortunate deal?

Are they even trying to stop this? Has anybody officially said something like: "Oops, this whole Google thing has not turned out the way we wanted. Sorry! We'll try to find a way out."
Lobo
Mask of the Diablo Azul - Member has won between 1 and 3 Steel Cage matchesThis user has the power to wield the BanHammer, a weapon forged in the fires of hell for that get-off-my-planet quality you can't get anywhere else. You betta reckonize.Forum Moderator
Posted Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:52AM

Posted By koi88:
Posted By luissantos84:
aren't you guys tired of discussing with Google? are the snacks that good there? Sean opened the topic regarding this matter on Jan 10th, how hard is to end this unfortunate deal?

Are they even trying to stop this? Has anybody officially said something like: "Oops, this whole Google thing has not turned out the way we wanted. Sorry! We'll try to find a way out."

We will have a follow up to this discussion very soon.
mikedabell
Member is a Gold contributor and has 10,000 - 24,999 Photo downloadsExclusive
Posted Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:15AM

Is that an istock very soon ?  wink   or can I hold my breath ?
PaulCowan
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Posted Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:41PM
Guess he's dead, now.
Lobo
Mask of the Diablo Azul - Member has won between 1 and 3 Steel Cage matchesThis user has the power to wield the BanHammer, a weapon forged in the fires of hell for that get-off-my-planet quality you can't get anywhere else. You betta reckonize.Forum Moderator
Posted Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:47PM

Posted By PaulCowan:
Guess he's dead, now.

I'm testing Mike to see how long he can last.

As we know how people hate the Friday announcements we are going to work on some things this weekend and be prepared for a Monday/Tuesday Newsletter.
StanRohrer
Member is a Diamond contributor and has 25,000 - 199,999 Photo downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Flash downloadsMember is a contributor and has less than 250 Illustration downloadsExclusive
Posted Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:13PM

Posted By Lobo:
As we know how people hate the Friday announcements we are going to work on some things this weekend and be prepared for a Monday/Tuesday Newsletter.


So the news is considered bad for us?

I figure good news would have reduced the D-Day (Saturday) deletions if presented late this week (Friday) as suggested earlier.

(Edited on 2013-01-31 14:14:46 by StanRohrer)
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