Is full frame worth the price?

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alanphillips
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Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:06PM
You are graduating from high school, you have an excellent camera body and a few fairly good lenses. Concentrate on your photography, your composition, determine what is holding you back from progressing to the next level and only then ask yourself if you need to upgrade to full frame. I'm pretty sure that you will find that better lenses will be your first priority. 
slobo
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Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:51PM
you can have 12mm wide angle lens on a FF while the widest on a crop sensor is (equivalent of ) 16-17mm. The question is do you need/want to go that wide? I do. Sometimes.
yongyuan
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Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:58PM
Posted By slobo:
you can have 12mm wide angle lens on a FF while the widest on a crop sensor is (equivalent of ) 16-17mm. The question is do you need/want to go that wide? I do. Sometimes.

Wide angle is great, but too bad my 11-16mm lens is only for APS-C bodies. 
yongyuan
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Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:08PM
Posted By kelvinjay: 

ETA: re the 7D, I don't know anything about it in particular, but just assumed all the Canon APS-C sensor bodies like the 30D and 650D etc had a similarly small viewfinder.




Kelvin, actually I am quite satisfied with 7D's viewfinder. It is inherited from 1D Mark III, offering 100% coverage and 100% magnification. Very large and bright. In fact, it is much larger than that of my 450D, and theoretically 15% brighter. It is not so large as 5D MK III's, but the difference is almost unnoticeble. So I think viewfinder is just not so big a problem. 6D only offers 97% coverage. 


So now I see the real difference lies in DOF and the 1.6x focal length factor. Do I get the point? 


ETA: I have checked the comparison on DxoMark, but I don't know what role do color depth and dynamic range play respectively? Dynamic range means the darkest to the brightest while color depth means the number of colors shown?

(Edited on 2013-06-10 20:30:18 by yongyuan)
Whiteway
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Posted Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:14AM
Posted By yongyuan:
So now I see the real difference lies in DOF and the 1.6x focal length factor. Do I get the point?

I think the real point is to get to grips with your photography and what you want to achieve. Buy good-quality, full-frame lenses that will satisfy your photographic ambitions. If your aim is to sell photographs on iStock, then the 7D is easily up to the job.

I am satisfied with the 7D to the point that I may get off the spiral staircase and make my next purchase a 7D, too; or its replacement. If I was a studio or a wedding photographer, rather than nature / outdoors, only then would I consider the full-frame alternatives.
igermz
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Posted Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:40AM
(1) What are you shooting? If you're after wild birds in trees with a 400mm telephoto lens, or if you're after insects with a 180mm macro lens, then stick with the Canon 7D, as in such instances the high pixel-density of the sensor, and Canon's 1.6x crop factor, will probably be advantageous.

(2) Where are you shooting? If you're in a bad climate then the 7D's well-sealed body might be a better option than a less weather-resistant full-frame camera.

(3) How much time do you have to acquire focus?  And which focus points do you intend to use?  Some of Canon's full-frame cameras (e.g., 5D, 5d MKII) function best with the center-point option; and they aren't known for their rapidity.

(4) Realize that image quality (IQ) is a function not only of the sensor according to surface area, but also of: (a) in-camera processing which varies from camera-to-camera according to model, as well as from generation-to-generation over time; (b) pixel density; (c) RAW or JPEG; (d) RAW convertor used; (e) lens attached; etc.

Does this make sense?  Say, for example, you set up a comparison between the 7D and the 5D from Canon, using RAW, and neutral settings, to be viewed at 100% magnification on-screen.  How much of the difference between the two cameras would be attributable to sensor size (surface area) alone?  And how much of the difference would be attributable to: pixel density, on-chip noise reduction, AA filter, etc?

(5) Do you own an on-camera flash?  You've mentioned cameras and lenses, but not a flash.  Have you considered additional light modifiers such as an umbrella, a soft box, and a reflector?  What about a wireless trigger such as a pair of Pocket Wizards?

You might educate yourself by investing a portion of your funds in a used, original, 13MP 5D full-frame camera, a simple, used 220EX or 420EX Canon on-camera flash (maybe, also incorporating a wireless trigger, off-camera sync chord, and/or reflector) and with the aid of your Tamron 90mm macro lens, trying to compare portrait results with your 7D.  700-1000 USD would be sufficient to obtain all the gear.

(6) How important is control layout to you?  The 6D has different handling than the 5D series.  Have you held the various cameras which you are considering buying?

(7) There's a strong argument to be made for owning 2 cameras: one APS-C and one full-frame, or some other combination which allows you to reap their peculiar benefits (size, weight, magnification, DOF, etc) but also enjoy back-up in case of failure.  Have you considered keeping your 7D and adding a second camera?
yongyuan
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Posted Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:07AM

Well, my father insist that he buy me 6D+2470 to me as a present for my 18th birthday and the graduation (Maybe he just thinks he should buy something, I'm not sure). In terms of the image quality, DOF, etc. I will wait and see. 


Thank you so much for offering me so much information. I think this can be thought over and over even after I buy the camera. I will keep 7D. I love the extremely fast performance. These two bodies can compensate each other pretty well. They focus on different needs of photographer. 


Again thank you for your opnions. I will try making good use of the cameras. Maybe the current gear is good enough. Maybe this upgrade won't be satisfactory...At least, I will try. 


Still welcome other opinions on whether go FF or not. Maybe I will be able to offer some too in the future.  
Difydave
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Posted Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:23AM
A very nice present! Enjoy it, and enjoy being 18 too!
kelvinjay
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Posted Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:36AM
Nice choice. I'm sure you will be very happy with that combination of body and lens.
ClarkandCompany
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Posted Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:45AM
I feel old.....enjoy the present and the future
lagereek
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Posted Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:43AM

There is also another important aspect of going full frame. I cant see many half frame cameras being produced for much longer, nor its optics.


It was OK in the days of the early Nikons and Canons but not nowdays. The only reason why half-frames is still around is because people are stuck with its optics.


Some year back I had a hellish time getting rid of half-frame optics.


Yes, if you shoot profesionally its really no brainer.
wdstock
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Posted Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:26PM

^^^^^Congrats and good luck to you!
blackwaterimages
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Posted Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:21PM
Posted By lagereek: The only reason why half-frames is still around is because people are stuck with its optics.


I'm not sure what you mean by this - I've used the very same lenses on my Canon 1N, which I got when it was released as well as the 10D, 20D, 50D, 7D, 5D and 5DMKII. If you're thinking most people own a ton of EF-S (or Nikon equivalent) lenses, I think you're mistaken.

Posted By lagereek:
Yes, if you shoot profesionally its really no brainer.


As I mentioned before (and I know I'm not alone) my current crop sensor cameras equal or exceed the quality of output of my full frame bodies. So, no - its not a cut and dry thing. Maybe for you, but don't try to speak for the majority.

(Edited on 2013-06-11 19:21:58 by blackwaterimages)
KolaczanCLOSED
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Posted Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:30PM
Sigma 8-16 gives the FF equivalent FOV of a 12mm lens. So, another magic feature of the FF sensor goes out the window



Posted By slobo:
you can have 12mm wide angle lens on a FF while the widest on a crop sensor is (equivalent of ) 16-17mm. The question is do you need/want to go that wide? I do. Sometimes.
yongyuan
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Posted Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:56AM

Hi guys,


Today is my birthday and I has got the gear. 6D has very good image quality while the 24-70 is extremely fast and sharp. Hope I will do better with them! 
Whiteway
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Posted Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:10AM
Happy Birthday. And good luck.
hatman12
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Posted Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:06PM

Canon 24-70 is a very nice lens.  Okay, big and heavy, but that's part of the price for top quality.  You won't regret full frame.


Edit:  remember to shoot RAW and use Canon's DPP software to remove any imperfections such as Chromatic Aberration.  Then convert to 16bit TIFF for Photoshop or other software processing.  Turn down the sharpening and saturation in your new camera, and add it back during processing.  This gives you greater control over the final quality and visual impact of your work.

(Edited on 2013-06-13 18:10:00 by hatman12)
beaubadger
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Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:32AM

I use a 7D mainly with a Canon 24-105mm and I get the benefit of approximately 170mm zoom with the crop sensor and my EF 100mm IS Macro is effectively a 160mm Macro which is great. However, there are times with the 24-105 I would really like the full frame sensor to get the benefit of the 24mm wide angle where I'm only achieving 38mm. It depends entirely on what you'll be taking photos of but I'm not going to spend a small fortune just to achieve the wider angle and the extra MP's, I would personally spend it on new glass. I've met plenty of pro's who use crop sensor cameras.
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